| Andrew C Bain's profileAndrew C Bain's spaceBlogListsGuestbook |  Tools  Help |
|
May 14 Jonathan Edwards -- Why 500 pages, mate?Here's something that irritates me, and I am wondering if it annoys you too. I mean all those books by the Puritans where they spend pages and pages describing what it is like to be under the operations of the Holy Spirit. Now, aren't these Puritan writers implying that a man can be under the operation of the Holy Spirit and not even know it? If not, then why did Jonathan Edwards for example, spend 500 pages trying to explain what true "spiritual experiences" are? Isn't he implying that the Holy Spirit cannot make a man know he is saved ? For example, if in everyday life, someone wrote a book called "How to know you have experienced childbirth", they would be implying that childbirth is something that can happen to you without you knowing it. So when Edwards writes "how to know you have truly been converted", isn't he implying that the Holy Spirit can't properly cause that change of mind to be obvious to the believer? It seems Edwards in "Religious Affections" has done the equivalent of writing a book about "How to know you are standing in the light of the sun". Because the only operation of the Holy Spirit is to enlighten the mind. That is, to furnish it with understanding of the words of God that are already written. "Because it is God who said, "Out of darkness Light shall shine," who shone in our hearts to give the brightness of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Cor 4:6) Could it be -- that the reason Edwards spends 500 pages trying to describe "how to know if you're saved" is because he made faith dark and mystical. You know how he says "faith is more than belief" and "faith is more than intellectually understanding and believing the Gospel". Well, since he makes faith complex and mystical, no wonder it took him 500 pages to explain "how to know you're having true spiritual experiences from faith, and not experiences from a counterfeit". Since he denied that conversion is simply a change of mind from falsehood to truth, it took him 500 pages to explain how in the world you can know you are converted. Because having the truth in you is useless (Edwards says that you can have the truth in you but still go to hell), Edwards is forced to explain how men should use their love/humility etc as evidences of salvation. (Because the truth cannot be an evidence of salvation, since unbelievers already have it according to Edwards, that only leaves humility/love etc as evidences of salvation). And thus Edwards must show how we can be sure our love and humility is genuine and not counterfeit. Since the Pharisees/Jews were sincere and zealous, and yet lost (Rom 10:3), Edwards was posed with a dilemma. How can the believer be sure that his sincerity and zealousness is not counterfeit like the Jews was? Can you ever be sure? See how making sincerity/humility/love the "evidence" to a man that he is saved would cause the man to doubt? On the other hand, if you say that faith is simply "receiving the testimony of God" (John 3:33), then you CANNOT doubt your salvation. Because its impossible to believe the infallible testimony, and not realize you're a believer! Good People go to HellEverything an unbeliever does is sinful, right? (Heb 11:6). Tad wrote me, "What we must do is love the sinner and despise the sin ..only encourage .. ask them to pray .. look into scripture .. 'seek and ye sha'll find'. im speaking of the seeker . someone is at the end of their road and calling out to God ( you may call it prayer or a "cry" ). I'm not speaking of an individual who claims to be 'spiritual' .. i'm speaking of someone who is actively reading the Scripture .. and seeking to know God , as only as allows ." My response: G'day Tad! Thanks for your msg. I assume we both agree that an unbeliever's prayer is sin? "Those in the flesh cannot please God" (Rom 8:8). Prayers of unbelievers do not please God, because unbelievers always pray "to the god of this world ... who rules in their hearts ... their father is the devil" (John 8:44 etc). So when an unbeliever prays, he's praying to the devil. If he prays "for faith", his prayer (by definition) is a work of unbelief. If he "seeks to become spiritual", then it logically follows that his seeking is a lust of the flesh (since he admits he is not of the Spirit when he "seeks" to become spiritual). So you are telling unbelievers to sin, right? Because an unbeliever's pray = sin. In fact, you're telling unbelievers to pray to the devil. "The Gentiles sacrifice to devils". (1 Cor 10:20). In other words, when an unbeliever prays, he is always praying to a devil (a god of his own mind). The apostles on the other hand told men to pray "with faith, not wavering" (James 1). They told men TO BELIEVE and commanded unbelievers to obey the whole Law WITH FAITH. They did NOT tell men to "pray for faith", since a prayer for faith, must always (by definition) be a prayer of unbelief. You will never find them telling men *how* to become a believer or how to be converted. That would be as ridiculous as telling an animal how to become a believer! (Unbelievers are "brute beasts", Jude 1:10) Oh... I forgot something. Tad - Do you think prayer is a requirement in order to be saved? If no, then why do you tell unbelievers to pray BEFORE salvation? If prayer is NOT required for salvation, then why should they bother? I suspect you think prayer is a requirement for salvation....(That's why you tell unbelievers to do it, in order to be saved) Romans
10: 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those not
seeking Me; I became known to those not inquiring after Me." Quoting
Isa. 65:1 Isaiah 30: 21 And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, This is the way, walk in it, when you go right, or when you go left. Doubting Calvinists and Agnostics -- Is there any difference?
|
|
|
