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A Dialogue...
Old Believer - So I hear you're going to become a pastor.
Young man - Yes, that's right! I am.
Old Believer - And may I ask -- what exactly are you going to preach?
Young man - The Gospel, of course!
Old Believer - The Gospel? You are a fool, young man. If you do so, you will preach to empty pews.
Young
man - Really? John Piper preaches the Gospel, and he has a very
large and respectable congregation. Everyone agrees that he preaches
the Gospel. So even though he preaches the Gospel, he's still really
popular.
Old
Believer - Are you sure Piper is actually preaching the Gospel? I
mean, the Apostles preached "the truth as it is in Jesus" (Eph 4:21) --
they proclaimed the pure simple truth -- and they were not popular.
Young man - Hmm. Then what do you think I should do? Your comments -- I must admit -- have rather confused me.
Old
Believer - Oh! Your question is easy to answer -- Preach something
extremely similar to the gospel. The more similar to it, the better. Do
everything possible to stir up your followers. And then present to them
something that appears to give peace to their guilty consciences. In
other words, after you alarm them then speak of the righteousness of
Christ, dwell on the value of his atoning blood and magnify the riches
of his free grace. And do this as much as you like.
But make sure you do not stop here.
Along
with these doctrines you must slip in hints, that something is required
to be done by the creature before he can be assured of his salvation.
Let your followers know, that despite of what you said about Christ
having "finished salvation", that something must be done by them in
order for them to know they are objects of his love. Preach that,
"Eternal life is not just knowing some facts about our future, as
precious as those facts may be. ... It consists in possessing an
intimate personal relationship with the Creator and Redeemer of the
world. ... To be certain of eternal life means to be certain of an
INTIMATE personal relationship with the Father. And if we have a
personal relationship with the Father, then we know that he hears us
when we pray according to his will."{1} This way the ground of their
confidence is not "the light shining into their heart" (2 Cor 4:6),
rather their hope will be based on how sincerely and humbly (how
"intimately") they can "walk with God".
Of
course, your followers will be left wondering, "Am I sincere enough?
And am I truly humble enough?" So you must convince them to be
satisfied with the up-and-down confidence that will be tied to their
fluctuating intimacy and humility. Preach that, "demand for a kind of
absolute, mathematical certainty about [your] right standing with God
is asking for too much."{2}. And to justify this, ignore the fact that
the Apostles said the Psalms are about Christ alone. Instead, pretend
that Psalms like "your wrath lies hard on me" (P88:7) describe the
experience of believers. This way they'll believe you when you preach,
"God has his reasons why he should leave one of his children feeling so
forsaken" {3} If you do this (and assuming you possess a popular
personality), you will satisfy your hearers and gain a strong power
over their affections.
But
beware! Since you value your influence over the people, be careful of
saying that the work of salvation is completed by the Son of God
himself without reference to any thought, feeling or act on the part of
the creature. Be very careful of saying that the believer is assured of
his salvation solely by the manifestation of the truth in his
conscience. Don't say that faith is simply a passive certainty about
the everlasting righteousness without any emotions or commitment.
Because
if you say that nothing is required from a man for him to be assured of
his salvation, you leave your followers nothing to do in the matter of
salvation. If you say that merely having understood and believed the
truth is faith, you will deprive their fleshly consciences of something
to do. And while under the natural notions of religion your followers
will always delight in building their assurance of salvation upon their
own sincerity.
So
-- Preach a mixed Gospel. Appear to magnify Christ, but in reality
magnify the creature by listing things he must do to be assured he is
saved. Make sure they base their assurance on their own humility, not
on the truth in them. Tell them, "the evidence that the Holy Spirit
presents to our own spirits and to the community is first of all the
evidence of love. The Spirit puts within us a HUMBLE HEART of love and
so gives EVIDENCE of his presence and power..." {4} Make sure it's
their own love and humility, not the doctrine of the Gospel in them
that will assure them they are saved.
Instead
of leading the creature to glory in Christ alone, make him glory in
himself. And that way you sneakily set aside the finished salvation of
Christ, by causing the creature to suspect that in one way or another
he must become his own savior. In his way, you flatter the human pride
and have your followers under your power (it so happens that mankind in
religious matters love to be deceived, Jeremiah 5:31).
Now,
once your followers believe that faith = sincerity, they will never be
infallibly assured of their salvation. Since faith = sincerity, when
they are less sincere, they will lose their assurance of salvation.
"Assurance will diminish in the presence of concealed sin...We must
often wait patiently for the return of assurance." {5} And since their
assurance depends on their affections (and you control their affections
through the power of your personality in your preaching), you will have
them surely under your power. Of course, you will need sensitivity and
talent to manage all this. But after it is well executed, you will be a
popular pastor.
{1} www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/
1985/494_Our_Father_Hears_Us/
{2} When I Don't Desire God, p217-218
{3} When I Don't Desire God, p232
{4} www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/1985/
488_Test_the_Spirits_to_See_Whether_They_are_of_God/
{5} www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/
1999/1134_Helping_People_Have_the_Assurance_of_Salvation/
How often do you hear this ...
"We
are in the light as believers. But are there not clouds that hide the
complete view of our salvation from us at times? Does God ever use our
human doubt to strengthen our spiritual dependance upon Him and His
promises? But do not look down upon your fellow brothers and sisters in
Christ that are experiencing a sin in their life that causes them to
not see clearly their savior." (Ethan Beckler, U-Illinois)
"I
never doubt my salvation anymore. But I will admit that when I was
young in Christ there were times when I wondered." (Josiah Burke,
Hawaii)
My
response: Hmmm.... Thanks for your comments guys. But the Bible defines
a believer as someone with same assurance and confidence as the
Apostles (2 Pet 1:1).
NASB: Simon Peter, a bond-servant and
apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same
kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
KJV:
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that
have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of
God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Now, Doubting Calvinists say
that believers today can doubt their salvation. Yet, the Bible says
believers have the same assurance as the Apostles.
No offence, but this puts you guys in a sort of dilemma =) A catch-22.
Either you have to say…
1) We can doubt our salvation even though we have the faith of the Apostles. Because the Apostles also doubted their salvation.
...or...
2) We can doubt our salvation even though the Apostles did not. Because we don't have the faith of the Apostles.
Point
1) goes against the whole New Testament, as the Apostles never doubted
their salvation. (Show me where the Apostles doubted! The disciples did
.. but that was before the Resurrection ... see http://Godnoliar.com/john_the_baptist.htm ) The Aposltes NEVER doubted! You will not find a single example!
And Point 2) contradicts 2 Pet 1:1 which says believers have the faith of the Apostles.
OK! Hope that made sense…
I
wonder... do you guys say that 1) the Apostles doubted their salvation
and thus we can? Or, are you conceding that you think believers today
do NOT have the faith of the Apostles (since the Apostles did not
doubt, but "believers" today do)
OK... hope to hear your response to that! =)
Now, I want to point out a comment made by someone that I totally agree with. They wrote me,
"In the end it is only the grace of God that saves us, and it is only the Holy Spirit that assures us of our salvation."
My
comment: OK!! So we agree that Holy Spirit assures believers the Gospel
is true. And since the Gospel says "everyone believing is justified",
the moment the Spirit convicts you of the Gospel, you are infallibly
assured of your salvation. You simply can't believe the Gospel without
realizing you are justified, can you? Because God has eternally joined
together belief with justification =)
And there are some verses
of Scripture screaming out on this point. John 4:14 says that
"believers never thirst" because they have a "well of water springing
up in them unto everlasting life". So the work of the Spirit is to
annihilate doubting so that believers never thirst for justification.
Maybe
you could also look at Hebrews 11:3. "By faith we understand the worlds
were framed by the Word of God." So, it's a man's belief in the Gospel,
that proves to Him God exists. There's no way we could know there is a
Just God and Savior who created the worlds, unless we understand
Christ's person and work.
Now, a man's belief in the Gospel not
only proves to the man that God exists. Paul also said we are to have
"peace and joy in believing" (Romans 15:13). So belief in the Gospel is
the way a man knows he is saved. (The way he has peace, joy and
assurance).
This means that understanding Gospel not only proves
1) that God exists, it also proves to me I am saved. So the evidence to
me that the Bible is the Word of God is the same evidence to me that
I'm saved. That is, the proof the Bible is the word of God is the
authority of God stamped in the Gospel. But the Gospel in me is also
the proof I am saved, so you I can't call in question my salvation
without calling in question God's authority itself !
Can you see
why John says "the one not believing God has called Him a liar" (1 Jn
5:10) ? Indeed, "this is the testimony -- God has given US [believers]
everlasting life". So anyone who doubts they are saved, doubts the
testimony, and calls God a liar.
Sobering stuff indeed! Imagine...
A
preacher gets up in the pulpit and reads the parable of the sowers. He
reflects upon the context of this passage and he also talks about the
Jewish agricultural customs in Christ's day. Then based on his
grammatical-historical analysis, the preacher concludes by listing what
he think the "soils" and "seed" might represent.
Did you notice something? The preacher never looked at Christ's infallible interpretation of the parable.
And
what would you think of this preacher? Most people would accuse him of
"exalting himself above Christ". This is true -- the preacher is
ignoring Christ's interpretation, and exalting his own methods and
ideas above Christ's.
Now, think about the Psalms.
Why is it OK for preachers to interpret the PSALMS (without looking at Christ and the Apostle's interpretation of the Psalms)?
Christ
and the Apostles applied at least 30 Psalms to Christ. So isn't your
preacher "exalting himself above Christ" when he says a Psalm is
describing DAVID, when Christ said the Psalm was describing HIMSELF
ALONE?
Introducing...
The Psalms Challenge
"to prove that none of the Psalms are about David's personal experiences"
http://psalms.pbwiki.com Here's something that irritates me, and I am wondering if it annoys you too.
I
mean all those books by the Puritans where they spend pages and pages
describing what it is like to be under the operations of the Holy
Spirit. Now, aren't these Puritan writers implying that a man can be
under the operation of the Holy Spirit and not even know it? If not,
then why did Jonathan Edwards for example, spend 500 pages trying to
explain what true "spiritual experiences" are? Isn't he implying that
the Holy Spirit cannot make a man know he is saved ? For example, if in
everyday life, someone wrote a book called "How to know you have
experienced childbirth", they would be implying that childbirth is
something that can happen to you without you knowing it. So when
Edwards writes "how to know you have truly been converted", isn't he
implying that the Holy Spirit can't properly cause that change of mind
to be obvious to the believer?
It seems Edwards in "Religious
Affections" has done the equivalent of writing a book about "How to
know you are standing in the light of the sun". Because the only
operation of the Holy Spirit is to enlighten the mind. That is, to
furnish it with understanding of the words of God that are already
written.
"Because it is God who said, "Out of darkness Light
shall shine," who shone in our hearts to give the brightness of the
knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Cor 4:6)
Could
it be -- that the reason Edwards spends 500 pages trying to describe
"how to know if you're saved" is because he made faith dark and
mystical. You know how he says "faith is more than belief" and "faith
is more than intellectually understanding and believing the Gospel".
Well, since he makes faith complex and mystical, no wonder it took him
500 pages to explain "how to know you're having true spiritual
experiences from faith, and not experiences from a counterfeit".
Since
he denied that conversion is simply a change of mind from falsehood to
truth, it took him 500 pages to explain how in the world you can know
you are converted. Because having the truth in you is useless (Edwards
says that you can have the truth in you but still go to hell), Edwards
is forced to explain how men should use their love/humility etc as
evidences of salvation. (Because the truth cannot be an evidence of
salvation, since unbelievers already have it according to Edwards, that
only leaves humility/love etc as evidences of salvation).
And
thus Edwards must show how we can be sure our love and humility is
genuine and not counterfeit. Since the Pharisees/Jews were sincere and
zealous, and yet lost (Rom 10:3), Edwards was posed with a dilemma. How
can the believer be sure that his sincerity and zealousness is not
counterfeit like the Jews was?
Can you ever be sure?
See how making sincerity/humility/love the "evidence" to a man that he is saved would cause the man to doubt?
On
the other hand, if you say that faith is simply "receiving the
testimony of God" (John 3:33), then you CANNOT doubt your salvation.
Because its impossible to believe the infallible testimony, and not
realize you're a believer! Everything an unbeliever does is sinful, right? (Heb 11:6).
An
unbeliever's "prayers", "seeking", "repentance" and "turning from sin"
-- all these things are sin (Rom 10:14). In fact, all their feelings of
"remorse", "regret", "guilt", "sorrow" must be sin. Any attempt to be
"humble" or "sincerely turn from sin", is in fact sin. Because all the
unbeliever's works are works of unbelief. If they try to be sincerely
"seeking salvation", it's because they don't think Christ was sincere
enough. By "seeking faith in order to be saved", an unbeliever shows
they think they are capable to "finishing off" what Christ "failed" to
do.
Scary,
huh? Especially when you hear ministers (not of Christ) telling
unbelievers to pray. Because everything an unbeliever does is sin, that
means that praying will only serve to increase the unbeliever's sin
(condemnation). In fact, every attempt by an unbeliever to "stop
sinning" only increases their condemnation.
Take
for example an unbeliever called John. Now, imagine a preacher told
John to "seek after faith" in order to be saved. And suppose John
follows the preacher's advice and tries hard to stop sinning, he prays,
sings hymns, tries to be convicted by preaching, seeks to be around
church members. But remember, he's doing all these things "in order to
be saved".
In
other words, the preacher has lead John to believe salvation by works.
Every work John does of "seeking salvation" is actually an attempt to
make himself better than other men (as if just being better than other
corrupt people is enough to make the perfect God of the Bible pleased
with you !).
In summary
1)
regarding unbelievers -- all their "seeking", all attempts to "stop
sinning", to "prayer" and all feelings of "remorse" -- all these things
are sin (Heb 11:6, Rom 14:23).
2)
in fact, any attempt by an unbeliever to "seek salvation" will only
increase the damnation of an unbeliever. For example, any attempt by an
unbeliever to "humble" himself and "seek faith" shows that this
unbeliever thinks Christ's work was incomplete and insufficient. By
thinking that humility is a requirement for salvation, the unbeliever
is showing he thinks something is required of him ON TOP of the work of
Christ. He might as well say "Christ died in vain".
3)
popular preachers who tell unbelievers to "become humble" and "seek
faith", are saying that Christ didn't do enough, and men need to add to
the work of Christ in order to be saved.
"whatever is not of faith is sin." (Rom 14:23)
"without faith it is impossible to please God" (Heb 11:6)
EXTRA -- Discussion with Tad (a Calvinist from GA).
Tad wrote me,
"What
we must do is love the sinner and despise the sin ..only encourage ..
ask them to pray .. look into scripture .. 'seek and ye sha'll find'.
im speaking of the seeker . someone is at the end of their road and
calling out to God ( you may call it prayer or a "cry" ). I'm not
speaking of an individual who claims to be 'spiritual' .. i'm speaking
of someone who is actively reading the Scripture .. and seeking to know
God , as only as allows ."
My response:G'day Tad!Thanks for your msg.I
assume we both agree that an unbeliever's prayer is sin? "Those in the
flesh cannot please God" (Rom 8:8). Prayers of unbelievers do not
please God, because unbelievers always pray "to the god of this world
... who rules in their hearts ... their father is the devil" (John 8:44
etc).So
when an unbeliever prays, he's praying to the devil. If he prays "for
faith", his prayer (by definition) is a work of unbelief. If he "seeks
to become spiritual", then it logically follows that his seeking is a
lust of the flesh (since he admits he is not of the Spirit when he
"seeks" to become spiritual).So
you are telling unbelievers to sin, right? Because an unbeliever's pray
= sin. In fact, you're telling unbelievers to pray to the devil. "The
Gentiles sacrifice to devils". (1 Cor 10:20). In other words, when an
unbeliever prays, he is always praying to a devil (a god of his own
mind).The
apostles on the other hand told men to pray "with faith, not wavering"
(James 1). They told men TO BELIEVE and commanded unbelievers to obey
the whole Law WITH FAITH. They did NOT tell men to "pray for faith",
since a prayer for faith, must always (by definition) be a prayer of
unbelief.You
will never find them telling men *how* to become a believer or how to
be converted. That would be as ridiculous as telling an animal how to
become a believer! (Unbelievers are "brute beasts", Jude 1:10)Oh... I forgot something.Tad - Do you think prayer is a requirement in order to be saved?If
no, then why do you tell unbelievers to pray BEFORE salvation? If
prayer is NOT required for salvation, then why should they bother?I suspect you think prayer is a requirement for salvation....(That's why you tell unbelievers to do it, in order to be saved)
Romans
10: 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those not
seeking Me; I became known to those not inquiring after Me." Quoting
Isa. 65:1
Isaiah
30: 21 And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, This is the
way, walk in it, when you go right, or when you go left. A
dialogue showing there is no difference between a Doubting Calvinist (a
Calvinist doubting their salvation) and an Atheist/Agnostic (a skeptic
doubting their salvation)
AGNOSTIC: So you think I'm in a dangerous situation, do you?
DOUBTING CALVINIST: Yes, I do. And I'm praying that God will bring you out of it.
Agnostic:
OK, I admit that I know nothing about what is going to happen to me
after death. I may be happy. I may be miserable. I may be neither.
Indeed, to me it's all a matter of doubt and uncertainty.
Doubting Calvinist: I pity you from the bottom of my heart.
Agnostic:
Of course, you must have a comfortable state of mind. You must be
triumphing in the hope of the glory that awaits you when you leave this
world.
Doubting Calvinist: Well ... I think I have a good hope through grace ... I do hope I shall be happy after death.
Agnostic:
Wait a second! It sounds like you are saying that you are not actually
confident respecting your destination after death. Do you mean to say
that you are not absolutely certain of being happy after death? It
seems that you have some doubts about your eternity!
Doubting
Calvinist: Well... I think that I have a well grounded hope. It seems
the Spirit has worked in me. But I can't be presumptuous. It's not
humble for a Christian to speak presumptuously about being elect.
Agnostic.
Can you please talk straight? Are you certain that you shall be happy
after death? Or are there some doubts in your mind?
Doubting
Calvinist: Well ... I can't say that I am absolutely certain. All I can
say is that if I persevere I will get to heaven.
Agnostic.
Then let us be friends! Or should i say "brother skeptics"! Why should
you and I quarrel about our views? From what you have just said, it's
clear that there is barely a difference between our positions. It's
really only semantics. I'm without religion and confess that I am
uncertain about my future. And you with your religion are also
uncertain about your future. We're both uncertain about our future.
Surely, if we are both skeptical about our futures after death, we
don't have much to disagree about!
(There is no difference between a Doubting Calvinist and an Agnostic)
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